Comment Meta

[amaresu]

Femslash Mini Meta fest was an utter fail this year. And I'm still not in a place where I could do it, so I purpose Comment Meta. And let's have it cover all things female and fannish. However you define those.

How it works

1. Post a meta topic in a top level comment. Use the subject line for the meta subject and expand as you want in the body of the comment. Or don't.

2. Repeat Step 1 for as many meta ideas as you have.

3. Comment on other meta topics.


It's kinda like a kink meme, only with meta. Feel free to browse the mini meta tag for ideas.

This is meant to be about as low pressure as it comes. Feel free to write on your own journal/Tumblr/blog and link back here. Respond with as little or as much as you want. This post will remain open indefinitely, so please track it if that makes things easier for you.

Comments

Re: *spoilers* Re: femnism in Top of the Lake

[chaila]

Though... I'm uncertain how I feel about the very end, when GJ walks off and tells Tui that her son is her real teacher.

Oh yes, I totally agree about this. I also thought this was part of a whole weird thing where nobody talked about Tui, a 12 year old, not keeping the baby? Like why is no one talking about adoption ever? I guess it's supposed to be set up to be expressly different from what happened to Robin, where she left after she got pregnant and gave the baby up and doesn't seem to regret that, really, but it is part of her trauma? And there were hints that obviously Robin and Johnno will be pretty involved with raising the baby. But I still thought it was weird that everyone acted like Tui was going to mother this baby without any discussion of what that would mean for everyone, especially since Tui is still a CHILD and presumably not done "teaching" her own parental figures that way.

being the Mother of a Son (fathered by No One, with Tui not even knowing how she got pregnant, if we want to go down a Biblical/Religious path)

I hadn't thought of that but...now I actually think it's kind of AMAZING?! Hear me out! From that angle, part of what this narrative is doing is exploding the myth of that sort of patriarchal Biblical myth, where the Mary figure piously accepts the will of God or whatever, and gets pregnant by No One and is just this passive vessel for someone else's will? Whereas this story centers the women and then explores and centers the violence and violation of that sort of myth; it is not pure and religious and innocent to be pregnant by No One, it's horrifying sexual abuse, bloody and violent and traumatizing for your whole life and so, so awful? So it's sort of exploring that sort of narrative from the actual female perspective and showing how twisted and disturbing and violent it really is for the woman involved, as a person, as opposed to her being some sort of religious symbol of innocence and purity. (Which doesn't make GJ's statement better though, because it's still weird to think of her son, born of such abuse, as being her Real Teacher...)

And yes, I totally agree with what you say about the subversion of the gender roles! (I think the incest was undone? But it's not clear whether we can trust what Al said about it or not, but I think the implication was that they will choose to believe him). I think what I loved about all this was how since it was set in such a real, fairly gritty setting and not an Action Story, their heroism was sort of their survival mechanisms in this violent world? And Robin's heroism is surviving her own trauma and also her persistence in making it different for other girls and women, at least as much as she can. Like in other stories in a narrative/world like this, they would be the victims motivating the angsty cop, like you say, but focusing on Robin and Tui--Tui and her rifle!--made the story more about their survival rather than their victimization, and Robin's feeling connected with Tui via her own experience drove her a lot. Not that their victimization wasn't always violently present or any less tragic, but the story as a whole was far more about how they deal and FIGHT and keep going and survive this rape culture. And I admit that Robin throwing the dart into the guy's chest was where I fell in love with the whole thing! I loved Robin's RAGE in this, and Tui's, and how the narrative completely validated their anger and never acted like they shouldn't be angry or that they should keep it contained. Tui was more contained, I think, at least until the end (which was amazing!) but Robin was such a fiery ball of anger the whole time and I loooved it.

And someone else pointed this out on Tumblr, but I love how Al, who said mildly creepy things and did vaguely creepy things throughout, ends up being completely awful and a terrible abuser? Like in other stories, he's the generally Nice Guy Trying to Do the Right Thing, at least sometimes, trying to maintain order, and this sort of micro-creepiness would probably be part of his snarky charm, and it would definitely be seen as harmless. Like the meaning would be, Robin why are you so worried, don't be so paranoid, it's just harmless Al, those are the sorts of things he just does, he doesn't mean anything. Whereas here his less obvious creepiness ends up being evidence of how totally awful he actually is under the surface and how right Robin was to be wary of it; it is not harmless. And I really liked that and how it further validated Robin and her reactions.

Okay I'll stop too! :)

Re: *spoilers* Re: femnism in Top of the Lake

[kmo]

love how Al, who said mildly creepy things and did vaguely creepy things throughout, ends up being completely awful and a terrible abuser?

YES! Because he is totally gaslighting her, in a way that starts out as subtle and becomes increasingly obvious and more harmful the closer Robin gets to solving the mystery. I also love how the villain is someone inside the law, this "respectable" authority figure, as contrasted with Tui's father- who is violent and a criminal in many ways but would never molest his own daughter.

as much as I sometimes get iffy feelings about a crime-solving woman having her own traumatic sexual abuse in her past as a motivator, I did like that they showed that Johnno had also been traumatized sexually by this experience, even if he hadn't been the one that had been raped. It's very unusual to see men suffering sexual trauma, even if it's just the trauma of being a bystander.

Re: *spoilers* Re: femnism in Top of the Lake

[twtd]

I did like that they showed that Johnno had also been traumatized sexually by this experience, even if he hadn't been the one that had been raped. It's very unusual to see men suffering sexual trauma, even if it's just the trauma of being a bystander.

Yes. And how Robin had to tell him what she almost certainly had to hear over and over again in the aftermath of her rape, that there was nothing he could do, that there were four men against one high school boy, that it wasn't his fault. And he doesn't really believe her, just like she, most likely, didn't believe those things when they were told to her, because they're both myths that undergird the whole system: that Men are supposed to be powerful protectors, and unfailingly brave and strong, and that Women who are raped somehow deserved it, brought it on themselves, could have done something to prevent it.

And in the end, everyone is a victim of those lies.

Re: *spoilers* Re: femnism in Top of the Lake

[sophinisba]

I loved Robin's RAGE in this, and Tui's, and how the narrative completely validated their anger and never acted like they shouldn't be angry or that they should keep it contained. Tui was more contained, I think, at least until the end (which was amazing!) but Robin was such a fiery ball of anger the whole time and I loooved it.

YESSSSSS