Comment Meta

[amaresu]

Femslash Mini Meta fest was an utter fail this year. And I'm still not in a place where I could do it, so I purpose Comment Meta. And let's have it cover all things female and fannish. However you define those.

How it works

1. Post a meta topic in a top level comment. Use the subject line for the meta subject and expand as you want in the body of the comment. Or don't.

2. Repeat Step 1 for as many meta ideas as you have.

3. Comment on other meta topics.


It's kinda like a kink meme, only with meta. Feel free to browse the mini meta tag for ideas.

This is meant to be about as low pressure as it comes. Feel free to write on your own journal/Tumblr/blog and link back here. Respond with as little or as much as you want. This post will remain open indefinitely, so please track it if that makes things easier for you.

Comments

Word Choices in Smut

[sarken]

All right -- let's do this. *g*

Vulva, cunt, pussy, vagina, slit, entrance, wet, moist, damp, breasts, boobs, tits... okay, you get the picture. Which words do you use? Do you use the same words no matter what, or do you like to vary it depending on the fandom, pairing, characters, or even mood you're writing? Ever swear you wouldn't use a term but then use it because it seemed right for that particular moment? When it comes to penises, it seems like fandom has pretty much embraced cock a a go-to term... do we have or are we trending toward any generally-accepted, widely-used terms? Is that something you'd even want, or do you kind of enjoy the debates and the search for the right word?

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[cleo]

I write in third person limited most of the time, and while I tend to use the same words, I try to use what would fit for the character whose head I'm in. While I usually wouldn't use cunt or tits (because they're words I personally don't prefer), if the character I'm writing thinks of them that way, that's what I go for. But I feel like few (if any, I don't know) women think of other women's clits as pearls or vaginas as blossoming flowers.

Vagina, cunt, pussy, breasts, tits, wet, damp, moist, slit, lips...all words that are awesome. I like that there's not one go to. I like that pussy has a different feeling from vagina has a different feeling from count. I think that's part of the beauty of the different words.

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[sarken]

But I feel like few (if any, I don't know) women think of other women's clits as pearls or vaginas as blossoming flowers.

I absolutely agree with you, and yet my brain just went, "...challenge accepted." I started something last night that wandered off from my original plan and suddenly the ladies were sharing smutty romance novels, which seems like a workable set up. Whether I'd have the nerve to post it is another story.

But, yeah, like you, I will use the word that seems right, even if it's not a word I like. And sometimes using it even gets me to change my mind. I used to dislike the kind of squishy sound of pussy, but there's a male character I like who would definitely use it (okay, fine: it's Bobby Ewing), so I started to see its appeal through his eyes, and now I don't have such a knee-jerk DNW reaction to it, although I still have some trouble thinking of a femslash pairing or context I'd use it with. Kind of silly considering his wife is the common element in my het shipping and my femslash shipping, and if I could see her enjoying his use of it...

I kind of have mixed feelings about not having a go-to word. I love words with distinct feelings and connotations, and I love having to think about word choices, but I am absolutely guilty of worrying so much about how many people dislike a given word that I just give up, or I don't give up, but I don't post the finished product, either. It's especially hard when it's a word I don't like but am using anyway. Anon kink memes are kind of a blessing that way -- no one knows who you are, so the risk is easier to take; you don't have to worry about people remembering your name and forever thinking, nope, not reading anything by them, they use that word I hate.

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[cleo]

I...kinda love that it's Bobby Ewing. <3

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[tree]

WELL. to me it depends on the fandom and POV character i'm writing. frex, i use much different terms if i'm writing for Pride and Prejudice than i do if i'm writing for XF.

breasts are pretty much breasts always because i don't like any of the slang terms. unless i'm purposely being more, um, bawdy? in the rare instance i'm writing from a male POV, i tend to use 'dick' or 'hard on' but in general i prefer to use 'penis' or 'cock'. (although i know someone who is really put off by writers using 'cock' because she is a bird enthusiast and it just makes her think of roosters.)

i like to be more specific with female genitalia and use the proper terms: mons, clitoris, labia, etc. but i do enjoy using the word 'cunt' because i think it's sexy and powerful. 'slit' is just what? 'pussy' i hate but i did use it once when i was consciously trying to write like another author. 'entrance' is weird and makes me think of doors, but the anatomical term 'vestibule' is really no better.

'wet' is my preferred term because although 'moist' is really the most accurate description for a vagina, i don't really like it. sometimes 'damp'. 'succulent' and 'juicy' are good if i'm writing from a male POV.

i hate the typical romance novel euphemisms like 'manhood', ugh, unless i'm trying to be funny or deliberately imitating that style. but that's enough to throw me out of something i'm reading. in general, though, i like that synonyms abound. there are words that just work in a given context and you don't necessarily know what they'll be until you try them.

it's very telling that there are so many ways to refer to genitals -- i think it's a case of necessity requiring invention because for so long, and even now in some respects, it simply wasn't acceptable to use the correct terms for those parts of the body. i mean, there aren't multiple ways to say 'arm' or 'leg' and that's because we've only needed the one term. lexical creativity has only been necessary for the parts that are secret or forbidden.

in short: words. i love 'em.

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[thingswithwings]

I looooove the word "labia." It has such a sexy sound to it, a soft and squishy word in the mouth. :)


it's very telling that there are so many ways to refer to genitals -- i think it's a case of necessity requiring invention because for so long, and even now in some respects, it simply wasn't acceptable to use the correct terms for those parts of the body. i mean, there aren't multiple ways to say 'arm' or 'leg' and that's because we've only needed the one term. lexical creativity has only been necessary for the parts that are secret or forbidden.

Yes, exactly! And that's both annoying and kind of wonderful, because all that lexical creativity means that we have a lot of differently-flavoured meanings that we can call on as writers, each word giving a different feel to the scene and the character.

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[sarken]

i like to be more specific with female genitalia and use the proper terms: mons, clitoris, labia, etc.

They're actually really pretty words, just in terms of written appearance, and I could kind of go for seeing them in smut more often. Except, well, this is the part where I make a joke about sex education in the U.S. and how most of the characters I read and write about would not necessarily know them or reach for them over more familiar slang. :\ Scully, though, they totally work for, and maybe, if I were ever to write such a thing, Margaret Houlihan. Hm. Yeah, I'm going to have to think about her.

lexical creativity has only been necessary for the parts that are secret or forbidden.

I love this point. And speaking of words, "lexical creativity" is a delightful term.

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[lyssie]

I definitely some over others--but yah, I change what I'll use depending on what I'm writing.

Kara Thrace, f'r instance: never gonna call it a flower of paradise.

A Six? A Six who's newly-awakened and in love with love? Yeah, she just might.

I generally prefer cunt or pussy to lips. And I try to avoid moist, though it's not always easy. And slick. There just aren't as many ways to describe things without being overly flowery. (and I dislike slit, it never sounds right)

As for male genitalia, I try for variety. Cock, dick, penis--member if I'm writing something more old-fashioned or have been reading romance novels.

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[zvi]

I tend to go for the short germanic works over the latin scientific words, because I'm trying to get the sex scene to be physically grounded and not have everyone floating in their head.

I can also sometimes be vague and use the whole person to stand in for their body, like, Andrea worked her fist all the way inside Florence, instead of inside Florence's vagina.

That said, I like the way pudenda sounds, because it has so many vowels and the soft d sounds, and I dislike cunt and slit because they end in hard t sounds.

I have never understood what people have against moist, but I think I'm more likely to describe things as slippery, wet, or damp because moist appears to freak a lot of people out.

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[sarken]

The hate for moist baffles me! It's not really a word I'd use in sex scenes (not for reasons of unsexiness; it's just not a word I think of very often), but so many people seem to have such a strong reaction to it in any context, but I'm just like, "Cake! Moist cake! Moist is a great word!"

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[samuraiter]

When it comes to penises, it seems like fandom has pretty much embraced cock a a go-to term.

Thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking! That, and I agree with a previous poster that breasts are pretty much breasts; that's a term that says what it is and, unlike a lot of the euphemisms, has no juvenile connotations.

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[carmarthen]

I've recently embraced 'prick' (my current fandom is 19th century), and also 'cunny' because it's the least awful historical euphemism, imo (and yes, it's related to rabbits, but less obviously than 'pussy' to cats, imo). I use 'cunt' sometimes depending on time period and POV despite not really liking it much.

In general I...really don't like the vast majority of non-clinical terms for female genitalia, and as with male genitalia there are plenty of terms I'll use in conversation but dislike in porn (dick and pussy at the top of the list). Some of the clinical terms I can deal with but they aren't always appropriate (especially for historical porn about young, inexperienced women who probably do not have a vast vocabulary of anatomical terms). The 19th century list of slang terms for the clitoris that I found made me laugh until I cried--'pearl' was definitely the least awful on the list, followed by 'button'.

This makes writing porn about women (especially f/f) really frustratingly challenging for me. :-/

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[thingswithwings]

Great topic! I really think that, when it comes to smut words, you have to train yourself to feel comfortable about them and to feel sexy about them - at least, that's how it was for me, ymmv. I started in het fandoms, then m/m slash, and now I do f/f and het and m/m and threesome and all sorts. And originally I had a lot of trouble finding "cock" or "dick" sexy terms, but after, uh, prolonged exposure? I do find them sexy and don't blink.

And I think it's the same for other names for genitals and things . . . I used to wince at writing the words "cunt" or "pussy" or "vagina," but the more I read them and the more I write them, the sexier they get. I firmly believe that there's no word that can't be made sexy with enough practice. :)

The challenge that I do run into is how a given character would think about their junk in their own interior monologue - because I think a lot of women, both contemporary women and any ladies you're writing in historical fandoms, are socialized to be less comfortable talking about or thinking about or using words for their parts, it's harder to imagine a female character straightforwardly thinking the word "vulva" about herself than it is to imagine a male character straightforwardly thinking the word "dick" about himself. So it's harder to write, for me, because a) I was also socialized not to use those words, b) I often feel that my character would've been socialized not to use those words, and c) it's sometimes a job of work to make the words feel sexy to myself.

Soooo anyway I always just try to make a character-dependent choice; writing Annie Edison from Community, who's almost virginal and pretty uptight about sex, it's going to go more the "entrance" and "vagina" territory - she's never going to think "put your fingers in my cunt," much less say it. I wrote Leslie Knope/Jennifer Barker femslash and actually legitimately had Leslie think the word "ladyparts" about her own genitals, because it just seemed more authentic for her than anything else would be. :)

Personally, I love using the word "cunt" in sex scenes, so it's always a delight for me when I have a character who would happily think of their own body that way.

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[sarken]

The challenge that I do run into is how a given character would think about their junk in their own interior monologue

This is actually the worst. I think this is the first time I've really struggled with it -- last time, using "cunt" was a really easy decision given the way some people tend to find it feminist and empowering, and before that, I just shied away from anything more specific than "her." It's a bit of an adjustment going from lefty activist-turned-pundit to society wife of a Texas oilman.

I wrote Leslie Knope/Jennifer Barker femslash and actually legitimately had Leslie think the word "ladyparts" about her own genitals, because it just seemed more authentic for her than anything else would be.

From what I know about the fandom -- and it's all secondhand -- that is absolutely perfect for Leslie. I love that you did that!

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[merryghoul]

I like to vary my words depending on what I write and what fandom I write them in. I use "dirty" words as well as more "friendly" words. Whatever I do, I try to avoid flowery depictions of sex that, to me, isn't what sex is about. (E.G. in most commercial romance novels.) I see it as a primal need, not something that has to be cleaned up for a certain readership's tastes.

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[notearchiver.livejournal.com]

With F/F I adore the word 'pussy'. I like the way it rolls off the tongue. I don't mind 'cunt' as a term, but it seems to hard for me. Certain people I write seem to need the word, though.

I can't stand vulva, vagina, or slit. I've always associated it with me being female, but also genderfluid, and I tend to have some latent dysphoria with that area of my body. (Okay, more than latent.) Pussy and cunt just feel more natural.

I love the word 'cock'. It feels confident and sexy. Penis feels so young, and dick is such a teenage feeling word.

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[executrix]

One of the main reasons I hardly ever write NC-17 is that I don't like *any* of the available words, especially words for women's bodies. And I don't even know any inaccurate or hostile words for vaginal lubrication--"Jill was wet," OK, but "Melinda dipped her finger in { } and dabbled it along Lucilla's labia minora" doesn't strike me as a terribly sexy sentence, although I can certainly imagine Melinda and Lucilla enjoying the *activity.*

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[aiffe]

It's funny how I've been in fandom 11 years, and I can remember this conversation being had 11 years ago. Sometimes I think we just worry too much! It's intimidating how someone always hates this word or that word. I've decided to just play nice with whatever words the author likes using. Any word is going to look weird if you squint at it enough. Maybe readers need to do less squinting?

I'm fine with all of these, and I'm gonna defend both moist and slit. Slit is a perfectly good word that describes the general shape of some women's anatomy. Along that vein, I also like cleft! It has a more naturalistic feel to it I think. Furrow is similar. In published erotica, I see "sex" a lot, as in, "She could clearly see the soft curves of Ann's shaved sex." Of course there's going to be someone out there who's like, "If you call it a furrow I'm backbuttoning." But maybe that person is just not as invested in sexytiems with ladies as I am. Maybe that person isn't ready for my fic. Feeling like picking the wrong word can drain all the sexy out of a scene you've carefully built up with steamy tension and sizzling chemistry between your characters is way too much pressure. As long as people know the general thing you are describing with your words, I think it's all right. Objections to a good-faith word choice usually seem to me like the person just wanted an excuse to dislike the content.

Re: Word Choices in Smut

[aurum]

Sorry to show up here 7 years late with starbucks, but I really love your comment! "Maybe readers need to do less squinting?" ha, yes.

I do have my own word preferences, but it would be a shame to let a word ruin an otherwise great scene for me, just from a reader's perspective. And I can see my preferences change as I go (especially since I'm still pretty new to writing f/f smut) so hey, who knows what words I'll grow to love yet.

Feeling like picking the wrong word can drain all the sexy out of a scene you've carefully built up with steamy tension and sizzling chemistry between your characters is way too much pressure. As long as people know the general thing you are describing with your words, I think it's all right.

That's the attitude I'll try to bring to my f/f writing (and reading) :D