Comment Meta

[amaresu]

Femslash Mini Meta fest was an utter fail this year. And I'm still not in a place where I could do it, so I purpose Comment Meta. And let's have it cover all things female and fannish. However you define those.

How it works

1. Post a meta topic in a top level comment. Use the subject line for the meta subject and expand as you want in the body of the comment. Or don't.

2. Repeat Step 1 for as many meta ideas as you have.

3. Comment on other meta topics.


It's kinda like a kink meme, only with meta. Feel free to browse the mini meta tag for ideas.

This is meant to be about as low pressure as it comes. Feel free to write on your own journal/Tumblr/blog and link back here. Respond with as little or as much as you want. This post will remain open indefinitely, so please track it if that makes things easier for you.

Comments

Re: Mixed Messages in "The Fall"?

[kmo]

What this show makes very, very clear is that victim-blaming is never acceptable, no matter what the circumstances.

yes, i think that is totally clear. especially at the point where Stella prevents them from using the word "innocent" in the press release- because all victims of sexual assault are innocent. and i think the show did do a good job of raising the issue that consent is often a really murky area, that something consensual can turn into something non-consensual really fast (as in the case of the university friend). and it does a great job of depicting the sexual double standard- the idea that Stella's boss tries to shame her for having a one-night stand with a married man when he himself once did the same thing with her! and how Stella just refuses to let him do that. so yes, i do applaud the show for refusing to slut-shame these various women.

but what i was uncomfortable with (and where i feel the show wants to have it both ways) was where i felt like some of the women were being punished by Paul and by the story for having sexual agency and autonomy. when we first see Sara in the bar in the first episode, i thought she was refreshing and brilliant. she was not going to go home with her "nice guy" friend. she was not looking for a relationship. but then she seemingly first gets humiliated (the whole thing with the underwear and the vibrator) and then punished for that agency by being murdered. and the show seems to both want us to condemn her killing....while simultaneously presenting it in an erotic way given Paul's POV.

Re: Mixed Messages in "The Fall"?

[dolorosa_12]

but what i was uncomfortable with (and where i feel the show wants to have it both ways) was where i felt like some of the women were being punished by Paul and by the story for having sexual agency and autonomy. when we first see Sara in the bar in the first episode, i thought she was refreshing and brilliant. she was not going to go home with her "nice guy" friend. she was not looking for a relationship. but then she seemingly first gets humiliated (the whole thing with the underwear and the vibrator) and then punished for that agency by being murdered.

Oh, I completely understand why you read it in this manner. For me, however, for the show to be pushing that particular agenda, her murderer would have to be her 'nice guy' friend, so that someone could then turn around and say, 'see - she was promiscuous, and she faced the consequences!' It's hard to see where the show stands in this matter, because we don't know that much about the lives of the other victims, so I don't know whether sexual agency and autonomy are a unifying factor.

For me, the deciding factor is the fact that the murders take place in locked houses. (In the most recent one, it even takes place when the woman's boyfriend or male friend is present.) The women did not invite Paul inside, interact with him in any meaningful way or even notice his presence in their lives. So any element of punishment for agency is, to me, entirely in Paul's head. So how I read it is the show making a strong statement along the lines of 'you can do whatever you want in your own lives, you can be as "innocent" and "blameless" as possible, and yet this horrible person has still found a way to violate and hurt you in the most terrible way possible. Therefore, victim-blaming is wrong, and therefore we should stop talking about what victims did to deserve it.'

But I can well see how you view the show as presenting mixed messages in this regard.