Where's my lesbian porn guide?

[amaresu]

Written for the prompt: Where Is All My Hot Lesbian Porn?



I can, without much effort, find a half dozen essays on writing gay male sex. Without hitting Google. I can't say the same for lesbian sex. Why is that?

We live in a society where cosmetic surgery for female genitals exists. We live in a society where despite knowing that the vast majority of women can't orgasm through penetration alone women still feel like failures for not orgasming through penetration alone. I've personally talked to people who didn't realize that their urethra and vagina were different things. How many women actually know that their vagina isn't their vulva? What about the labia and the clitoris? In a society that tries to pretend that female sexuality doesn't exist is it any surprise that some of us might need primers on just how lesbian sex works?

Of the people who would be willing to write lesbian porn how many of them know what the vulva looks like? How many have looked at their own? How many know what other people's look like? How about shaving? Why do women do it and just how popular is it? What about the G-Spot? Fingers, tongue, both? Are teeth a good thing? When do you bring toys into it? I could go on and on about the things that it would be nice to have people actually talk about when it comes to this subject.

I can write about oral sex for men, but I wouldn't have the first clue where to start for women. And that's really sad. I think the basic assumption is that we are women (most of us anyway) and thus should know these things, but we don't. Not all of us. And where exactly are we supposed to learn? Google really isn't a whole lot of help there.

So, really, help a girl out. Tell me how to write this stuff.

Comments

[lotesse]

I just realized that I never, never think that female characters may have shaved/trimmed pubic hair. Huh. I'm so used to all-natural in real life that the idea of hairlessness never crossed my mind! Wild.

Warning: Incoming TL;DR, TMI, and NSFW descriptions of female sex acts

[dagas_isa]

Disclaimer: I've never had lesbian sex, so I can really only talk about an individual woman's sex-life (both het and solo) that could maybe be applied to a 2+ woman relationship. Also, veers into TMI.

Hmm...you make some very good points here, especially because while there's a lot of female genitalia to be found, it's not very geared towards women trying to view it. There's a lot we don't know about our bodies as women, and I think even more, in what we do know, there's not a lot of acceptance that a wide range of variation is going to be 'natural' and that having one variation over another isn't wrong.

The thing is, women's bodies are so YMMV, even without all the mystery surrounding women's sexuality. With guys, I think there's this basic rule that anything done to the penis that doesn't cause pain will feel good. There's also very obvious signs of orgasm. Even though men certainly aren't universal in what they like as far as sensations go, there's enough commonalities.

I don't think that holds true for women. It's so YMMV, and one woman's pleasure can be another woman's over- or under-stimulation.

Most can't come from penetration alone. But some can, and some women really like the feeling of penetration even if they don't come from it alone. Also penetration will feel different depending on what's doing the penetration and the angle, and whether there's another type of stimulation going on at the same time. Plus, penetration can have (for some people) icky power dynamics.

And then without penetration. Cunnilingus. Some people think it's the best thing ever. Some people don't like the sensation at all. Some might like the sensation, but are worried about how it smells/tastes down there. Plus it takes a while. Like neck-achingly, mouth-dryingly long times. Masturbation/Diddling. Some can only get off with their own hands, some only with a partner's, some with both. Plus there's other forms of stimulation, anal sex with a strap-on, tribadism (scissoring), vibrators, foot jobs, erotic massages....

Oh. And orgasms. Generally it's not only easy to tell when a man comes, but it's easy to know when he does, he's done for a while, theoretically, barring medical or authorial interventions. Women not so much. First, there's the multiple orgasm thing. Can your characters even do it? Is one enough for them, or do they need more to be satisfied? What even counts as an orgasm? Do they have to be earth-shattering, or does a merely 'nice' one count? What about several merely nice ones in a row. When do they declare the sex to be over?

Plus, there's the question of what happens during periods. Sex drive can go up, can go down. For some women, sex/orgasms help with the cramping, for others it just exacerbates them. For some penetration feels really good, for others they're just too raw and sensitive for penetration to feel good. Some might find the idea of period sex gross, while others either enjoy the idea, or accept that there's going to be clean up. Plus, there's the partner's attitude on all of this, and what she's willing to do while her partner is on her period. And oh yeah, pregnant sex too, which yes, can vary. Although I've heard that fisting is one of the ways to prepare a woman for giving birth.

And then there's all those other little not-necessarily sexual things. Vanilla or kinky? What kind of kinks? Dirty talk? Phone Sex? Other sexual encounters, where there's no touching of each other, but lots of mental strings being pulled. What are they thinking about during sex? The most powerful erogenous organ is located between the ears, not the legs. What do they do to look good for each other/turn each other on? Are they fine with quickies in the backseat, or do they need romance and cuddling afterwards?

In other words, there's such a wide range of what feels good and what doesn't that the best sense of "how" seems to be however the author wants to write it, and whatever they imagine the characters involved liking. Just because I don't get off on cunnilingus doesn't mean favorite character can't...

((Though, in regards to teeth, probably not, unless the one receiving is into it))

Otherwise, I think the first thing is that while women might know ourselves (a little) actually sharing this info is seen as TMI in our society.

As far as where? Well, there's books on it. Also just browsing on a site like Blowfish and just reading the product reviews (especially for the videos) can be educational.

[sqbr]

My most sexually explicit fic has like 4 lines of kissing so this is not (as yet, at least) an issue for me. But it has struck me that if I wanted to write f/f sex I would have much less of an idea of where to start than for m/m. Some of these issues apply to het sex as well, at least if you want to get past the generic romance-novel-esque heteronormative "And then her penetrated her and it was awesome" sex scene (heh. And now that sentence is the most sexually explicit scene I've written :D) Our society tends not to be interested in exploring female desire from the woman's POV.

[xavie]

Thank you for this post! I'm so tired of reading the word 'folds' as universal description of female genitals in f/f fiction.
I agree with dagas isa that there are no definite answers that can be given in a how-to guide. But I think it's important and long overdue to talk about the questions you raised.

(Even if I find myself being intrigued by the idea of writing a how-to-guide... *blush*)

[summerstorm]

I completely agree with what some of the commenters above are saying about different women having different reactions to a given sort of stimulation, but I still think a how-to guide to writing lesbian sex (or more than one!) could be written and written well and helpfully. It doesn't necessarily have to be the be-all, end-all of guides; I don't think you can actually write a guide that applies to every woman (or female character) ever. But you can write a guide that applies to some and that fic writers can use for reference. Or not even write a guide — just start talking.

I'm being purely selfish here, ngl. If I ever get stuck on a m/m sex scene, I can troll delicious for not only meta but also dozens upon dozens of well-written stories I can read to get a feel for what works and what doesn't, technically and otherwise, in the sexual act/kink/whatever I'm trying to write. When I get stuck on f/f porn (or f/m), I get stuck. I'm not sexually experienced at all; I know how to get myself off (and [TMI] my fingers are enough to bring me to orgasm through clitoral stimulation, plus I live with my parents, so I've never tried toys, and I've never even really fingered myself seriously [/TMI]), and that's it. I can draw little details from that, but I can't base the mechanics of sex in my stories on my own experience because it would get boring (and creepy) really fast, and it's not like I need experience to write m/m sex that readers can more or less enjoy. Also I love writing about tits and mine aren't really much of a physically erogenous zone.

And the thing is, I still write porny femslash, but a lot of the time it's ridiculously nonexplicit because, aside from my writing style tending towards the psychological connotations rather than the physical goings-on, I don't want to mess the physical stuff up.

More TMI: I trim for comfort, and I shaved once and it hurt like a motherfucker when it grew back, so I have not tried again. /TMI

So, some things I would love to see people talk about because I frankly don't know how they work (and I'm going to show my ignorance off here, but hey, it's all for the greater good, right? And for the sake of that outline for a story that involves more graphic heterosexual sex than I've probably read in my life and I want to write for rpf_big_bang): multiple orgasms. How many orgasms is that? How different do they feel from one another? How much time passes between two of them? I'm 100% sure it differs from woman to woman, but just knowing ways it does happen would be helpful for writing purposes.

Also, the G spot. All I know about the G spot comes from magazines I read when I was fifteen, and I can't take magazines seriously. Personal accounts from women who actually know where their G spot is (LOL, the ~search for the G spot~, jesus christ) and how it feels and how it's best stimulated and if one can orgasm from G-spot stimulation alone and if and how the feeling of a G-spot orgasm is different from clitoral or vaginal orgasms.

From an even more writing-inclined perspective, how explicit can you get without putting people off, and what words can you use without getting too clinical? There is so much m/m stuff out there that gets graphic about male genitalia, but most porny femslash fic doesn't even mention pussy. I'm not even talking about folds and other such terms; I'm talking about vagueness. "Between her legs" and "[verb] inside her" and the like. Not that that's a bad thing, but it's extremely different from what's common in m/m slash.

So I'm pretty much throwing meta prompts out here (and potentially embarrassing myself) in hopes someone will be awesome enough to answer them, I guess. And, for the record, it's already crossed my mind several times that I shouldn't post this comment because a) it's tl;dr, b) it's two in the morning, and c) I honestly don't usually talk about this stuff. But I'm going to click that goddamn post comment button before I backtrack and/or my Safari crashes, because I think talking about these things is worth losing a little dignity. (And dignity is overrated, anyway.)

[ein_myria]

Is there really a "right" way? Maybe a way to go about it is how NOT to write it. For that, I leave you a link to McGill's guide to lesbian sex and STDs that law_nerd posted elsewhere:
http://www.mcgill.ca/studenthealth/information/queerhealth/lesbianandstis/

[ivanolix]

And where exactly are we supposed to learn?

I know for me, as a writer, given that I don't have all the "right" personal experience (although really, who does), I sought out lesbian porn written by lesbians. That, plus some experience in thinking about my own sexuality/sexual experiences, made writing f/f porn seem a whole lot more natural than writing anything but (possibly) het sex. But—and I guess this is the main point—I would have no idea how to tell anyone else to get to that point. No one ever taught me to write porn; I'm not sure anyone could have said anything that would have helped me to "get it". It was really something that had to spring out of my own sexuality and how I expressed it. Sure, reading porn helped, but it's not as simple as imitation, and it wasn't like I was taking lessons while doing it (if porn is well-written, you're not focused on why that is, no matter how much you'd like to know that when not turned on).

And the thing is...f/f sex is just as varied, if not more so, than f/m. How are you possibly supposed to write a guide to that? I have no idea where to start. When I think of writing f/f porn, I think of it in terms of both a) the characters, and b) the situation/prompt. Porn in general though...way too broad a term.

[pop-the-tart.livejournal.com]

First, I'm not really active in fic right now. I read one every few days, but I haven't seriously written anything in years. I'm working on that now, but it may be some time until I'm out there again. That being said, this conversation interests me and I want to throw in my two cents.

I think something that needs to be addressed in any sex guide is that not all people do all things. First and foremost the author should be very particular about figuring out who their characters are. Two authors can have vastly different views on characterization for anyone, but their stories need to show that they have a handle on who a character is and this includes sex. Possibly, sex is even more important to characterization than anything else. I think it speaks very deeply of a person to know what kind of sex they have versus what kind of non-sexual relationships they keep.

In the case of the sex itself I agree that trying to spell out all the ways people react to sex is a lousy idea. However, a proper introductory chapter illustrating that not everyone likes or reacts to everything the same way would work just fine. After all, this isn't a guide to HAVING sex. It's a guide to sex for stories. Sometimes, you just want to know how exactly putting tab A into slot B works and how it's usually pleasurable (or in some cases how it's usually not). I think, too, that links to enlightening sources on the various sexual acts would be a good inclusion.

I think that a lot of fanfic readers get ideas for their own sex lives from the stories they read and write. Therefore, it's helpful when the authors know at least the bare-bones basics of what they're writing about. I don't, however, think that people need to worry over-much about "getting it wrong." We're writing fantasy here, not non-fiction. The best romance novels are the ones that throw reality to the wind for four pages of ridiculous, mostly unbelievable smut. I mean, the reality of most of the sexual relationships I've had and known about is that sex has to be scheduled and planned and slaved over. If that's true for most, then the idea that two people are banging anywhere but in the comfort of their own home and bed is in and of itself over the top and unbelievable.

I think a discussion on the difference between real sex and fic sex is one that I'd very much like to see. I'd say that most femslash authors who are women are writing about the kind of sex they want to have - the unbridled, unplanned, easy, passionate kind. Who wants to read about Alex Cabbot and Olivia Benson penciling in sex between a long work day and loads of casework. Sex that's probably going to be frustratingly difficult due to the amount of stress both women are under all the time (I don't know about most people, but achieving any kind of release while stressed is impossible for me). Instead, I'd rather read about them banging in the bathroom and getting off fast and easy because they lust for one another all day. (I don't lust for anyone all day, not even my super-hot fiancé. I've got too much to do!)

Porn just isn't sex - it's porn. You can ask any anyone - it just doesn't work like it does in the popular films (usually - I feel the need to caveat because there are always exceptions). If they were like real life, real life would either be a lot less boring or porn would be a lot more boring!

All of that being said, the only kind of sex I feel expert in is anal sex. I'd be happy to write up a response comment about it if anyone wants it, but it's one of the more easy things to research. :P

As for a question I'd like answered, does anybody NOT have a hard time with strap-ons? I find them hot to read about, but completely impractical in real life. They just never stay where I want them to. As I'd like to write about it in a fic, but want to come at it from both directions (heh, so to speak), I'd love to know others' experiences. Tips/tricks? LOL.

[cleo]

I've said most of what I wanted to say in comments to other comments, but I did want to add this.

lez_sex_tips is a longstanding LJ comm for, well, lesbian sex tips. It's not really geared for fic writers, and a lot of the questions are about personal and specific situations. But the differences in the advice given is really interesting.

It's not a set guide, but it is a good place to get a range of advice and personal experiences on anything from what type of vibrators people prefer to different tips and experiences with oral sex to lesbian sex while one or both partners are having their periods.

[woldy]

Maybe it's because I'm queer, but I don't entirely understand why someone would need a post about how to write f/f sex. There are plenty of resources for those wanting to know how f/f sex works: googling 'lesbian sex guide' brought up lots of decent-looking options, putting 'lesbian sex' into the books search at Amazon gets over 5000 matches, and you'd get lots more hits for more specific searches. What would you want to know from a post geared at fic writers that wouldn't be covered by the existing resources about f/f sex and the posts geared at people writing smut in general?

[mosca]

Thanks for answering my prompt in such a thoughtful way; I've found the resulting discussion fascinating, too. I agree that the problem is that we (not just in fandom) are generally unwilling to discuss the questions you've raised, and when we do, we tend to apologize for doing so. Even in the mostly-female community of fandom, we're a lot more comfortable talking about dicks. You're right that most women don't know the names of the various parts of their genitals, even if they know which parts they like touched and how. You can say, "there, no, a little to the left" in the bedroom, but that doesn't work so well when you're trying to describe a scene.

I love writing explicit f/f, but I agree that even though it's the kind of sex I've had the most of in real life, it's in many ways the most difficult to write about. Judging from the other comments, a lot of people just give up or fade out. I'm also getting the impression that people would read the porn if more writers were brave enough to attempt it.

It would be neat to start a fannish commmunity project to put together a fan writer's guide to f/f sex. I don't have the time to run such a thing, but I'd be happy to contribute.

[nike-ravus.livejournal.com]

This is really tough. Definitely research is really helpful, and that lez-sex-tips, awesome. Who knew breathing through your mouth while giving oral was very appreciated? Well, the people who do, i guess. If asked to give advice i would say...

1) research like hell
2) watch/read porn related to what you want to do
3) write with your hand down your pants.

Seriously, that's where you get all the good dirty stuff, because, as some people have said previously, the point is not to have an accurate or nuanced representation of f/f sex, it is to get people turned on. If it turns you on, probably a good shot.

There's all the other stuff, like 'have some dialog during a sex scene, because there's nothing more boring than "X put her fingers there, and Y came, and loved her so much." for six pages. I tend to scroll down if I hit a 'romantic' sex scene to get back to the plot. And the 'half your readers will hate the word pussy, but sometimes it's what fits, and vagina never fits *anywhere.*'

M/M slashers are just obsessive. But their thoughtfulness about this does show in their fic. (Sometimes a little too much). I just generally assume that research is difficult, but important, and if it's worth doing it's worth helping other people do.

Although seriously, at least F/F sex is possible to research online. (Although pornography is like the least helpful thing here). Mermaid sex? This is more difficult to get a good handle on. (But if anyone wants a really squicky (in the way that at the end you're like, okay, that's nice, and then have to check yourself) guide to humans having sex with dolphins...

Okay, if there is a guide to *that* we seriously need to get working!